Um das mal konkret auseinanderzunehmen:Surāmerayamajjapamādaṭṭhānā veramaṇī sikkhāpadaṃ samādiyāmi.
I undertake the training rule to abstain from fermented drink that causes heedlessness.
+1.Eulenspiegel hat geschrieben:@ raellear: Vielen Dank!
Das war nicht nur aufschlußreich, sondern so was von sauber abgeleitet, daß es mir ein Lächeln ins Gesicht gezaubert hat.
Diese Aussage bestaetigt meine Vermutung, dass ein guter Teil der generellen Ablehnung psychedellischer Drogen in der asiatisch-buddhistischen Welt damit zusammenhaengt, dass es eben kaum zeitgenoessischen Konsum von solchen Drogen in der Kultur dort gibt.With the advent of actual practice came Buddhist critique of the psychedelic experience. Some teachers slotted drugs into the mind intoxicant category of the precepts. This was not really convincing for many, however, because whatever psychedelics might be, anyone who had taken them knew that "intoxicating" was a limited, reductionistic description, at best. And more often than nor, the Asian teachers making such pronouncements had no actual experience of psychedelics.
The few teachers who did have such experience, however, were in a uniquely privileged position to compare the two experiences. The most sympathetic of these was Trungpa Rinpoche, who had tested and tasted the splendors of Western civilization in England. He was one of the few Buddhist teachers one could talk to about such things, which many of his students, myself included, asked him about. Officially, of course, all illegal drugs were prohibited. But privately Trungpa Rinpoche had, as he told me (and here I paraphrase loosely from faulty memory), a lot of sympathy for students who had taken LSD. He even volunteered that we might take it together some time in the future, an opportunity or challenge that I never got to take him up on, to both my regret and relief. The suggestion was both exhilarating and scary. His style and skill, after all, was in cutting through trips of spiritual materialism rather than guiding them.
This is hardly surprising. More than most spiritual paths, Buddhism tends not to be very impressed by "experiences," be they spiritual or psychedelic. And Trungpa Rinpoche, for all his outwardly wild non conventional behavior, was a Tibetan mastiff when it came to practice: your ass was on the line, which meant on the cushion. Still, at least in the "early days" of the seventies, his sangha was wilder and more open than many. The point, it seemed, was not to avoid samsara but to get into it directly, as long as you returned to the cushion next morning, hungover or fried. As he said in one of his few public statements about it, LSD was a kind of "super samsara," and in as much as it heightened certain samsaric tendencies it could be a useful method.
Auch das ist interessant, viele Leute die ernsthaft mit Psychedellika im spirituellen Kontext arbeiten (wie auch hier im Forum und an anderen Orten) lehnen Cannabis gerne ab.
About marijuana he was less tolerant. The main problem, he once told me, was that marijuana tended to "mimic meditation." This take led to a dramatic confrontation with a group of his earliest students. In the early seventies a tribe of hippies, known as the Pygmies, became students and were the first to colonize the undeveloped land that has since become known as Rocky Mountain Dharma Center. They cobbled together an odd assortment of living quarters, yurts, one rooms, A frames, a six sided cabin. "At night the main entertainment tended to be kicking back, pouring a beer, smoking a joint," reported Barbara Stewart about that time in The Vajradhatu Sun (August/September 1991), "but a meeting ensued, a powerful and violent clash that would eventually mean the beginning of the end of the Pygmies private
Smoking marijuana, Rinpoche said, was lying to themselves, indulging in self deception. They should bum both, marijuana and self deception... The Pygmies were taken aback, angry and confused. But only one person, call him Mike, fought back Jim Lowry remembers this scene. . 'Mike hit Rinpoche and Rinpoche hit Mike. It was violent, it was a huge eruption. Rinpoche threw a flower pot he missed Mike. Maggie screamed, 'Stop!' Rinpoche built a fire in the fireplace. 'Destroy self deception,' he was saying. It was tense but calm.... Everyone went and got dope and threw it in the fire. We were kind of chanting: 'Destroy self-deception, destroy self-deception.' . . The first dathun month long group meditation) was a turning point, confirming the obvious, that this land was to be a meditation center and not an Eden like Pygmy crafts commune
Sehr gehaltvoll und lesenswert das ganze Ding imho. Seine Lesart des 5. Precepts deckt sich wohl mit der Idee die ich auch dazu habe - dass laut Buddhas Aussage nicht die Droge an sich, sondern der Zustand der Verblendung/Verwirrung hervorgerufen durch den Konsum der Substanz zu vermeiden ist. Welche Drogen in welchen Dosen nun in den Augen des Konsumenten Verwirrung und Verblendung hervorrufen muss man dann ultimativ selbst wissen.The precept in Theravadan Buddhism for dealing with intoxicants is one of the five basic training precepts: not to kill, not to steal, not to speak falsely, not to engage in sexual misconduct, and lastly, to refrain from using intoxicants to the point of heedlessness, loss of mindfulness, or loss of awareness. It does not say not to use them and it is very explicit. It is interesting that it is worded that way: to not use intoxicants to the point of loss of consciousness or awareness. There is another translation of it which says not to use intoxicants which remove that sense of attention or awareness. Then it is left up to the individual, as are all of the precepts, to use as a guideline to become more genuinely conscious.
wenn ich das richtig verstehe, hat ein supersamsara nur wert für tantriker. leute auf dem kleinen fahrzeug können damit eigtl. nichts anfangen!As he said in one of his few public statements about it, LSD was a kind of "super samsara," and in as much as it heightened certain samsaric tendencies it could be a useful method.
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